Land Rovers Series II 1962- 1970s Different castings

Following my recent articles on distinguishing some of the rare Land Rovers, I have had a number of further queries and so I decided to try and cover in one go the main differences that you will find in the Series II editions which ran from 1962 to the 1970s.

The rear window

There are two main types:

1: With frame, flush fitting with the rear of cab
2: Indented

The first type has a sort of frame in the perspex. The window unit has been shaped so that the area in the back of the cab is filled by the perspex and seems smooth with the flush fitting of the unit.

The second type has a much simpler window unit which does not have a section that extends into the space for the window. This makes the window to appear indented, with the metal inner frame evident.

The vent lever / hinge

There are three main types of the small protrusion on the window frame sides:

1: long upright, short horizontal

2: a large triangle pointing forward

3: a small triangle

The upright front edge is easy to spot. The door hinge is quite well defined.

An obvious triangle shape and there are just two dots for the door hinge.

A tiny triangle and much more detail in the hinge area.

Registration plate area

There are three distinct sizes of panel on the offside front wing:

1: small rectangle

2: large rectangle

3: square

The top of the radiator grille:

There are two main types:

1: No gap between the top of the grille and the bonnet

2: a clear gap between the top of the grille and the bonnet

3: a very small gap between the top of the grille and the bonnet

This may not always be obvious as the silver painting often does not cover the whole grille area which can give the impression of a gap but look for the position of the top edge of the grille area. The green 438 above has a clear space evident which the 406S above does not. Type 3 only appears on later models and always has the bumps as headlamps, as described in the next section so it is not necessary to spend too long staring at these.

Headlamp rims

There are two main types:

1: the headlamps have a defined rim around the lamp

2: the lamps are just bulges in the metal with no clear edge

Fairly easy to spot on the early Army and 406S models above.

Less obvious on the 438 in deep green above (but note the different grille top edge positions). All later models from the metallic turquoise editions on, have the Type 2 style with slightly different blobs and spacing but this is not easy to distinguish alone so I have left them as type 2.

The roof 'plate'

You will find models that have an obvious plate on the roof and others that display no evidence of a plate at all. In between there are many variations from feint to slightly more raised.

It should be possible, though, to distinguish between the two types:

0: no 'plate'

1: with 'plate'

Plates seem to be spread almost randomly amongst models from 1962 to 1965. Some models like the 406S never seemed to have one. They also don't seem to appear on models with the Type 2 vent and all models get a smoother roof from around 1966, maybe a little earlier, it's difficult to pinpoint a date.

The examples above all have a sort of 'plate' on the roof, obvious in the last image but, at first glance, you could easily miss it on the top one.

Only later models, where the roof bars also have a different shape, is it obvious that there is no 'plate'. On very early models, it is clear again that there is no 'plate' but these do have a casting line running across the top of the window frame. Sometimes it can be difficult to detect the 'plate' so be careful when checking this and look at the shape of the bars too.

I have often wondered why this 'plate' was needed. 

The table below shows how the various Types are distributed amongst models in my possession. As you will see, it appears that those models with Type 2 vents also have the large rectangle registration plate panel, no headlamp rims and a space above the grille (except for an odd GS7 model I have). Those with Type 3 vents all have a square panel, a higher top on the grille and no headlamp rims. So there is likely to be a way to simplify things. The brown GS2 model appears to be another odd one out too so I'll have to wait and see what others can contribute before going any further.

Update: I have added an RAC Land Rover with a plate. The two RAC models have a different shade of blue too - most surprising during such a short period of production.

No.		Colour	Vent	Window	Regn	Grille	Headlights	Plate
406	S	yellow	1	1	1	1	1	0
GS	22	farm green	1	1	1	1	1	0
416	S	RAC blue	1	1	1	1	1	0
416	S	RAC blue	1	1	1	1	1	1
500		khaki	1	1	1	1	1	1
351	S	RAF blue	1	1	1	1	1	1
438		dp green	1	1	1	1	1	1
GS	17/19	red	1	1	1	1	1	1
357		khaki	1	2	1	1	1	1
438		dp green	1	2	1	1	1	1
GS	17/19	red	1	2	1	1	1	1
GS	2	brown	1	2	1	2	2	0
438		dp green	2	2	2	2	2	0
GS	2	brown	2	2	2	2	2	0
GS	7	green shaped	2	2	2	3	2	0
438		met turquoise	3	2	3	3	2	0
438		me apple	3	2	3	3	2	0
GS	7	green cast / W	3	2	3	3	2	0
GS	8	white cast / W	3	2	3	3	2	0
GS	15	blue	3	2	3	3	2	0
GS	19	dk blue	3	2	3	3	2	0
438	Quake-up	met green	3	2	3	3	2	0

This table is pretty much in order of the date models were produced which may help to indicate when changes appeared first. I am expecting some additions and will revise this as they are discovered. It is a start, however, and may be of assistance to the many Land Rover collectors out there.

I am aware that there may be further differences and one colleague has told me about different types of hatching and other features but these can only be seen inside when the model is opened. Clearly, we are not going to see those in models in our collections so they have to remain beyond the scope of this exercise!

Type 3 models will have a range of hook types and interiors. I will write about these separately.

Blue or green?

 

At first glance, seeing this photo might make you a little excited at the prospect of a 351S model being available. The blue shade looks about right and, even though it's not in great condition, you may be tempted to investigate if this were shown in a sale catalogue or auction listing.

Then take a look at this one. I would find it difficult to resist buying this one as it looks very much like it could be the scarce shade of green found for a short time in the early Agricultural Gift Sets with an all-yellow platform trailer.

The extraordinary thing is that they are all the same model! It is a very ordinary deep green 438! I have not doctored the photos. Apart from being reduced in dimensions, they are straight from my camera, taken in daylight, although admittedly February daylight and I had a light on in the room on the ceiling above them.

This really does demonstrate how careful we must be or, at least, how we must be prepared for disappointment! The difference is quite remarkable and the model sitting on the desk in front of me as I write looks quite normal and obviously deep green.

Maybe it is just my eyes, the effect of other items nearby or just my brain wanting to see something that it is looking for! Perhaps you see no particular problem and don't really understand why I am writing this. But if you are in any way like me then I am afraid that we will each need to ask sellers for some alternative photos, ideally taken next to some other model but, as that's a lot to ask for something that is probably going for about £10, we shall simply continue to take chances and hope!

This was actually one of two models I bought a few days ago after staring at the screen for ages. I even downloaded the seller's photo of the models and ran it through some editing software to try and determine what the 'natural' colours might have been. That indicated that they were even more definitely blue! Indeed, I had to reassure myself that they weren't rather dirty examples of the Pony Club edition!

The pair did only cost £10. And that included postage. I didn't expect much. I didn't get much. Just two deep green 438 Land Rovers. One as above that is complete and, being all original, might get me my money back. The other I have made into something else - just for fun!

Creamy stars and window frames. 500 or 357?

I have wondered how to distinguish between a 500 US Army Land Rover and a 357 Land Rover Weapons Carrier for a long time and had almost given up. My research into the 351S models, however, may have provided an answer at last. 

There are three models to collect, the November 1963 issue, all of which are believed to have gone to the States and numbered 500 in no-pictorial boxes and two 357 models from January 1965. The 357 may have either a lemon or red interior.

There are also distinct paints used on the 357 - a light khaki with a matt finish and a deeper shade with a satin, or much more shiny finish. It is always difficult to be sure about the canopies actually issued as they all get swapped around over the years but I believe they all had a similar mid-shade of khaki canopy and not the deep green type which appears to have been transferred rather more recently from a 438 issue with that colour.

The difference would appear to be in the perspex unit used for the windows. On the more recent 357 models it is a smooth unit and so there will be a sort of indent at the rear window.

On the 500, the window unit has a raised section which fits into the space for the rear window making a flush surface at the rear of the cab.

This can also produce a sort of 'frame' in the perspex when viewed from some angles.

The stars also seem to be a much creamier colour, all my 357 models having decidedly white stars.

Until yesterday, I had never taken off the canopies on the two original boxed models that I have had for many years and so had not noticed this difference.

Now, I cannot say that this is a definitive conclusion to the matter. It is possible, perhaps, that this particular type of window unit was being used for early 357 models too. However, models that I have of other Land Rovers, where I can be pretty sure of a purchase date prior to 1965, have the plain unit / indented rear window. The only Land Rover produced at around the same time as the 357 Weapons Carrier would be the 477 Breakdown Truck. Should all these prove to have the later style unit then that would further strengthen the case, as would, indeed, the 417S modes with a type 2 jib, although, with the longer span of production, I guess there may be examples of the 417S with the type 2 jib but early unit. That I shall investigate further but, for now, I am content to use this to distinguish the two.

This is important because if you thought the 351S was rare with its mere 25000 sales then the 500 will be considerably scarcer with just 17000 said to have been sold and most, if not all, of them exported. So if you have a matt, light khaki finish, lemon seats and a frame in the perspex rear window with cream rather than white stars on the bonnet and doors then you're most likely to have a 500.

A sweeter flavour gold for the James Bond Aston Martin

 

February is looking good with another valuable arrival this month. This is a late edition of the iconic James Bond Aston Martin in a non-metallic finish which is termed toffee gold in various publications. It is certainly quite different to the metallic finish, which itself comes in a few shades, but there are two further features that distinguish this one. Firstly, it has a brighter red interior and, secondly, the underside of the ejector roof has a matt, plastic-looking finish.

The bullet shield on these versions is also often a dark, almost black metal in contrast to the normal lighter metal colour.

This particular example seems to be in first class condition all round with all the features working and very minimal signs of wear, just a small chip and scuff mark on the roof and a feint rubbing mark on the top of the windscreen, visible only from some angles.

These seldom appear on the market. In an original box they're worth about £750. I'll try and find an original box but in the meantime it will be available with a first class reproduction box which also contains all the correct goodies at £300. There is another currently advertised at this price but with 'economy' postage of £13! It also has a suspicious problem with the ejector seat. 

As this gold colour is comparatively easy to find, you do need to beware of people who rebuild these. Some specialists do a super job but they will be highly unlikely to have the correct interior or roof so watch out for toffee coloured examples with the same colour on the roof underside and the original darker red interior.

These two illustrations are from a QDT blog on this issue.

351S RAF Land Rover discoveries

 

The 351S RAF Land Rover with suspension and interior is a rare model. Of all the Corgi Toy issues from this era, I have found this one the most difficult to find anywhere and at any price. It just doesn't appear. You'll see 'Pop Art' Minis and the yellow 406S Land Rover and other scarce items quite regularly but this one just never seems to be in anyone's box of toys to be sold. The books tell us that 25000 of these were sold. That's not a lot by Corgi standards. The not particularly common RAC Land Rover issued at the same time is said to have sold 207000. It is still a lot more than the Rocket Age Gift Set 6 (10,000) and even the Golden Guinea Gift Set 20 (23000), each of which are definitely easier to find, the latter particularly so.

The books tell us that this was issued in December 1962 but also withdrawn in 1962 so I can only assume that either a huge crate of these went somewhere never to return at the start of production or that the data we've been given is wrong. Suffice it to say that a original example of a 351S in almost any condition is a valuable item now.

I have accumulated four examples and finally believe that I have at least one, possibly two originals. I shall look at each one in turn but I'll start with comparing the colours of those I have.

Often you will find that a seller's camera produces quite different shades to what you will see yourself in daylight. I have even had trouble distinguishing the deep green 438, also issued in December 1962, from a possible dark blue colour and have even bought a few hoping they might be RAF blue only to discover they were a rather non-RAF deep green!

As you'll see above, my first acquisition, the model on the left was a blue colour closer to the RAC blue than RAF blue. The two centre ones look the right colour but then so does the one on the right. So colour, especially if you only have one to look at, doesn't help as much as you might hope.

I will now look at each in turn.

First, here is the one of the right in the photo above and I can say straightaway that it is a repainted model. It has been done very well, though, with quite a reasonable job of some aged-looking rivets that are possibly correct front and back.

Although I was unaware of this at the time, however, the rear window is a different casting, with quite a distinct angle to the vertical parts of the frame and the window itself is inset, the window unit being flat perspex only.

It is a nice-looking reproduction, however, although not adding silver to the radiator or bumper is a surprising omission by what would seem to be an accomplished person. The previous 351 model only had a roundel on the front so I think adding one to the rear may also have been a mistake here. The roundels on all of the others that I have, by the way, are mine and not great but I thought they should be there.

The second is, I think, the genuine article.

The rivets look original and real and the paint colour is good and consistent under the wheel arches. In particular, the rear window sits flush with the outside of the cab and the frame lacks the angle of the previous example. This would seem to imply that, for the 351S, a window unit that had a raised profile to fit the rear window space was used. I have just checked some other Land Rovers and found that I have a 416S with the same flush fitting as well as one 438 model. That is a new discovery for me and I will have to return to this subject in a future article!

I think it is fair to conclude, though, that a genuine 351S will have to have this flush window and that might help you in your deliberations. This particular example lacks a piece of the hook and has obvious playwear but it is sound and I am pleased to have it.

Here is another that I think is original (apart from my roundel!). It has pretty solid rivets which I don't think anyone could have replaced like that and, if they had, I am pretty sure they would have added the hook that is missing!

The colour under the wheel arches and beneath the front bumper is consistent too. The rear window is also flush. I was a little put off by the silver splashes under the font bumper but I am content that this one is good.

Like the other original, this one has had a hard life and lost a lot of paint but it's real and worth a fortune.

The last one to illustrate here is, in fact, the first one I acquired some years ago.

I had nothing to compare it with the and, although the colour did seem a bit 'blue' I was hopeful that it would be an original. Underneath, the rivets looked very original and secure and certainly did not seem to have been tampered with in any away. The colour was consistent too under the wheel arches and near the front bumper.

I was concerned, however, by the splash of paint on the base itself which was a worrying sign that some owner might have been in the habit of adding paint and more so by the extra silver paint that seems to have been marked near the bumper.

The tyres, of course, I knew were incorrect but they do suit the model and I was not too bothered about someone having changed them and so I have left them in place. The rear window on this one was completely missing, though! That was odd. I suppose it is possible to break and then remove the bits but not that easy to make a clean job of it. This means I cannot test whether it meets the new 'flush' requirements but the frame is in keeping with an original 351S style.

So I don't know what to make of this one. the colour is quite different but it really does not appear to have been taken apart and repainted. It will, I guess, remain a mystery! The most likely explanation is that it is a production sample. I had had a few of these for other models and they often do have splashes of paint here or there.

I shall probably put the two originals on sale but the price will be high, I'm afraid. Maybe if I find a few more I be more generous but if you want one now I feel they have to be at least £400 and I will have to hang on to the mystery one as I can't sell it with confidence as one or the the other. The reproduction is worth about £50, consistent with what I have found collectors have been happy to pay for the 322 International Rally Rover 2000 models that I've made with the correct wheels (but the normal 322 body).

I shall write more about the 'flush window' later. Maybe that will finally provide a way to distinguish 500 from 357?!